[Music]
okay
I
welcome on board spotnik with me hakara
Mustafa and me gri you probably would
have a better Force if you recruited
entirely from England but it can't be
afforded so you go from the Midlands of
England to nepales Asians and then at
some point you say I'm afraid all we can
afford now is Africans no this isn't an
extract from one of Rudyard Kipling's
more obscure novels these were the words
of former British army officer James
Ellery defending EG's decision to
recruit possible former Child soldiers
from Sierra Leon a Danish television
documentary revealed how a major British
private defense contractor may have
recruited former Child soldiers to work
as security guards on American bases in
Iraq in the child soldiers new job which
aired this month it was claimed that Aus
which is chaired by Sir Nicholas SS the
Tory M and Grandson of Winston Churchill
hired some 2,500 mercenaries on as
little as 10 pounds a day in order to
fulfill contracts to guard US military
bases from 2004
onwards who better to shed light on this
extraordinary story than former British
soldier and News correspondent Joe
glenton Joe welcome to the show thank
you for having me Joe the story involves
some a Tory Grande a major figure of the
British establishment it's received
quite little coverage in the British
media but before we go into the actual
details of the story first of all what
is the Le what are the legal Frameworks
in which these kind of uh operations
actually operate in in in war zones um
there is I mean that's the central issue
I think there is very little regulation
mercenary companies we should call them
what they are um avoid and resist any
kind of legislation they they talk about
self-regulation quite a lot but as we're
seeing in this example and lots of
others since the the mercenary Gold Rush
immediately after the Iraq War um there
is no regulation there's very little
oversight and they have friends in high
places the the filmmaker actually says
that his desire really is to expose uh
the goings on of these mercenary
operations through this documentary do
you believe that actually this will work
really will will it raise the awareness
of the public opinion well it won't uh
it won't do any harm I think and it's
important to expose I mean uh SS is a
very interesting character in himself
but the I think the more interesting
character who is a character directly
out of rard Kling is Brigadier Ellery
and he's a very interesting go I don't
know if you saw the recent adaption of
um the night manager but the
aristocratic arms dealer at the center
of it Richard rer was branded the worst
man in the world and if that was a real
title this guy could probably compete I
mean he was uh he served in one of the
most elite regiments in the British army
um he was an a to Camp to Lord mount B
he's an absolute establishment figure um
and interestingly his uh part of his
background he also worked for the UN and
during that time he was part of the
group which demobilized child soldiers
in si Leon which disarmed them and tried
to help them re-enter society and now it
sounds like um he's kind of cashing in
off that which is a particularly kind of
vulture-like um way to to conduct
business I mean he defended the decision
claiming that you can't actually control
the situation he has defended in the
most interesting in the most Flashman
likee rard Kipling imperialist terms um
because he's talking about he's almost
talking about um hiring mercenaries um
in a place like Sierra Leone where the
um unemployment is very as a kind of um
uh something which supports those
people's human rights and is a kind of
humanitarian act and that is precisely
where this man exists at the meeting
point between humanitarian operations
the UN Etc and the private military
industry the War Industry and he seems
to flip very easily between Both Worlds
what is alarming though is because
obviously these kids are picked up at 18
just to the point where they're actually
legally uh it is legal for them to be to
operate in these War zones it means that
they've actually received training as
child soldiers so they right for the
picking when they're 18 and in other
words because they're offered well
supposedly lucrative jobs coming out
from Sierra Leone it actually encourages
child soldiers to work at this you know
from the age of 12 or 13 and then be
right to be picked up by a a mercenary
company later on I think it does I mean
it's it's de yeah deeply deeply um
Sinister that these children who've been
badly traumatized potentially are now
being thrown into another war zone where
they're armed again and maybe even more
badly traumatized I mean they're not a
known measure you don't know what will
happen but it reminds me again it has
this kind of colonial um kind of
coloring to it um it's almost like years
ago it was sending the Irish sending the
cheapest sending the Expendable sending
the Africans sending the Indians the
gers and it seems to be um based on
profit margins a kind of repeal of that
that're sending the you know the cannon
fodder literally I mean maybe it
shouldn't surprise us we're in Britain
we're one of the last countries that
still recruits child soldiers ourselves
and people under 18 now there's a
campaign to stop that now but it seems
to be really about profit from what age
from 16 you would say originally it was
15 and a half there's a drive to get it
higher and higher and higher so that um
uh people can't be recruited the last
country in the world one of the last
countries in Europe it does seem to be a
reflection of this kind of backwards
ruling class SS Ellery mentality sending
the Expendable Cannon F I always thought
this mercenary concept is very dodgy I
mean it has to be based on profit
because otherwise why would you go in
the in the front in a war into a war
zone if not for the money uh leaving
your family behind uh but the way you
talk about it's like it's like an an
agent yeah there it's like an agent
group just sending out and it's I mean
as I said immediately after the the what
we're seeing is The Tail End Of The
Mercenary Gold Rush Iraq was flooded
people who were nightclub bouncers were
turning up with a rifle and saying I'm
I've had military service lying about it
there was a a Hu and it's still a
multi-million dollar um industry but we
seem to be at the tail end of that but
of course mercenaries also fit into the
the kind of new um the the various
strands which the government has had to
adopt because it's very unpopular to
send soldiers in Mass occupations like
Iraq and Afghanistan where I so people
aren't sympathetic towards mercenaries
and it's another strand um for how the
war on terror is being fought now you
have the mercenaries you have the
Special Forces you have drones have
cyber warfare you have air strikes uh
because they can't afford to commit
large amounts of troops it's very
unpopulated it's death in the kind of
limited democracy we have here and in
the case of Tony Blair it's also a
political suicide yeah yeah exactly um
you know so it's a kind of a it's a
fallback but of course it has impacts in
Iraq and in Africa coming back on the
issue of the war on terror okay there is
the it's very opaque within the war zone
the legal framework but in Britain it's
very clear isn't there at least very
officially a conflict of interest when
you have lawmakers actually voting for
Wars and then going on to profit from
the postwar sort of uh sure sure I mean
I think um briger Eller is a brilliant
example of this though he's not a
lawmaker but he's an example of this
this strange Dynamic and SS as well but
I know Ellery was involved in Paul
braimer who set up the kind of uh
Colonial Administration in Iraq he was
part of his staff and I mean it's I mean
there is a huge conflict of interest but
it really depends what we can do about
it how we can legislate for it but again
there does have to be a framework um and
you're right I mean it's outrageous that
people are voting for Wars uh and then
profiting from it though it's not new is
there some sort of campaign to raise
awareness about the situation some very
good work has been done I remember there
was a report um in January by waron one
which out you're probably familiar with
and they did a big investigative report
which they often do and they do it very
well into um the mercenary industry in
the UK and how close it is I think there
are various companies up in Herford next
to the headquarters of the Special Air
Service and they recruit directly out of
there so this stuff is going on it is
being exposed but of course I mean and
this is why the use of mercenaries is so
popular because people don't have the
same sympathy um but I mean there are
campaigns people are trying to do it I
know a lot I mean a group of veterans
who are committed to peace activism we
try and touch on it as well and are they
working perhaps with African governments
um I mean it if they're not they should
start I don't know exactly what the the
terrain looks like there in terms of
activism and trying to get things done
but fundamentally it has to be
legislated for um and these people have
to be controlled uh I understand you
served in Afghanistan um was there a
sort of similar scenario going on in in
Afghanistan there was there was lots of
mercenaries in Afghanistan though
sometimes it's hard to pick out who's
mercenary in whose Special Forces cuz
they have this kind of quazar uniform of
half military equipment and a rifle and
then half civilian so genes and a caml
shirt um and both of those groups wear
the same thing but there's also a
broader issue I think not just of
military um military
personel um a lot of them were UK and
lots of South Africans um Americans and
people like that with big zzy top beards
and soff weapons and what's the Rapport
between actual official soldiers and
these mercenaries um in certain units in
units like the rawal Marines and the par
of the elite units I those guys would
know people I have friends from those
kind of units who also spent time as
mercenaries out in Iraq or Afghanistan
and in Africa and other places Libya um
Nigeria is a big one as well um but
there's actually a kind of um uh the
military at one point was very very
concerned that it was losing highly
trained Special Forces Personnel because
the mercenary companies were competing
with them and saying well we'll give you
even more money to do this far easier
job guarding an installation guarding a
convoy um but it's I mean it's a very um
Advanced and very um wealthy industry
and the government is involved I
understand in 2012 the foreign office
spent 50 million of taxpayers money on
um private security for its various
installations in embassies and things
like that if only the public knew that
yeah this is number and you're right
it's under reported and people need to
know because in that case it's taxpayers
money yeah exactly there's uh there's
talk obviously of sending further troops
in Libya in order to sort of try and and
rectify the mess that was caused back in
2011 do you believe that part of this
would be sort of in collaboration with
some of these companies to profit from
the situation and send these mercenary
companies I suspect companies like AIS
and G4S who we all know um are waiting
with baited breath to descend on Libya
my view is to send in any kind of the
SAS are already there we know that um
but to send in any kind of troops to to
Libya as a component in an Italian
Brigade given the history of Italy and
Libya would be some somewhere between uh
uh Rock's drift and um that black HW
down it would be an absolute disaster
with austerity biting now and you know
unemployment Rising do you believe that
at some point we we'll be seeing sort of
British squatties treated a bit like the
African Child soldiers and sent off for
for under 20 quid a day maybe
potentially I mean it's very difficult
to say a lot of soldiers leave the
military to to absolute poverty and they
have nothing but I think at least in the
estimation of um Brigadier Ellery he
would rather have he would rather have
British soldiers so I think that they
would cost slightly more but I mean who
can say going to happen in in the
economic climate we have now and but do
you think there'd be opposition I mean
or or or perhaps in this sort of class
Warfare going on and the idea that you
can send African kids or perhaps
workingclass kids then there would be
this the idea would be perfectly
acceptable um maybe I don't I mean
you've got to see how it how it how it
pans out but it's possible but it would
be interesting because at the very least
that would raise awareness in British
public uh and probably sort of create
opposition to this practice sure I mean
again there is a political imperative
behind this it's um it's very painful to
see white British soldiers or former
soldiers dying that's very unpopular
it's easier to send in the Irish send in
the people of color um and so on it's
it's politically um an easier ride for
the people who back these mercenary
companies and vote for Wars thank you
very much Doug lanton coming up next
trouble in Paradise we'll be talking
about the latest in Brazil stay
[Music]
tuned welcome back back on board the
Sputnik it was first to be the highlight
of 2016 but less than four months to go
before the Olympic opening ceremony in
Rio de Janeiro in Brazil and the games
have now been reduced to an
insignificant talking point earlier this
month 73% of the lower house of Congress
voted in favor of dilar Rusev's
impeachment thrusting the president's
Workers Party into disarray although
initially a popular politician Rusev
began to suffer increased criticism in
Congress and in the press as Brazil's
one's formidable status among the
world's foremost economies went into
reverse the PT's ambitious social
housing program aimed at benefiting the
poorest was funded by oil and a
Commodities boom that began some 15
years ago however with Brazil slipping
into recession in 2015 coupled with a
corruption investigation implicating
politician from all parties the South
American nation's shining star has begun
to
falter the bricks Club once's most
promising country is in crisis to
understand how this is likely to impact
South America and Beyond Is Peruvian
born journalist and media specialist
Javier far Javier welcome on board the
spck thank you for having me D marusa
was the heir of uh Lula exactly who came
you know who left brilliant and
Brilliant mandate and where did it all
go wrong for dma well as you mentioned
in your introduction
uh the the sort of the decline and the
boom of Commodities export uh mainly
because of China's economic WS um in a
way contributed to the situation the
other thing is that um she was not Lula
she could not match the Charisma and and
and also the she could not inherit the
economic growth that Lula had and enable
him to afford social programs while he
was following more less Orthodox
economic policies and that created
Brazil has this the strongest domestic
Market in Latin America therefore the
dependency on export was not as big as
it like Peru or or the countries in the
region um and that uh people started to
lose confidence the consumer started to
lose confidence uh that affected
investment so there was kind of like a
domino effect that made it uh you know
possible for for the economy to start
going down um the corruption scand that
you mentioned now we have to be we have
to point out very clearly as you rightly
said that it seems that every political
party members of every political party
in Brazil are involved in this
corruption scandal at least 60% of MPS
of members of parliament have something
to do with this Scandal of corruption
however Dilma has not been touched by it
directly there's no evidence that she
has been involved in corruption but she
but she's been leading the country and
sort of almost allow the climate in
which this corruption sort of fested
that is the criticism they made of her
that she let the whole thing go that she
didn't come hard on the actual
investigation of this corruption um that
members of the Workers Party were
involved in that and she did nothing
about it uh when she was in Petras which
is the origin of the the Big Oil state
owned company which is at the core of
this corruption Scandal she was in the
board before she became president she
didn't she was not corrupt that she did
not
control certain trading sort of you know
uh operations that the company had that
led to corruption things so yes he he's
been accused basically being negligent
the reasons for the impeachment we have
to be very clear many independent
analysts consider they are not strong
enough for her to be impeached she's
been accused of cooking the books to
make the economy look better than it was
now we have that experience in the UK
every Everybody every government does
that uh but basically there's there
there's an element of people being being
tired of of of the corruption and they
use this as a reason as an excuse if you
like to impeach her at the same time all
the other parties that were part of the
Coalition because of the corruption
Scandal they didn't feel that they were
able to stay in the Coalition so she was
getting more and more isolated and as a
result of this situation we have this
impeachment which is not helping the
economy by the way because people are
starting to when there's political
instability in the country people say we
don't want to invest there so I'm trying
to understand how this economic crisis
is being displayed in society you said
earlier that Rusev is not like Lula just
as Maduro is not Chavez these are huge
Stars bit difficult to follow well in
Venezuela it's very obvious we read
constantly how they are literally out of
toilet paper out of bread it it's very
very very tangible um I just remember
recently from uh the scenes in Brazil
about the protests about bus fairs how
how is it displaying in society well
okay you would mention Venezuela we have
to understand that one of the reasons
why the situation is so bad in Venezuela
is low oil prices in the international
markets that has affected hugely because
the budgets in Venezuela are planed
based on the current price of oil
there's no money but this is what's
worrying about Brazil because obviously
Venezuela is an O dependent economy but
Brazil wasn't and it actually managed
very efficiently to to expand absolutely
that is the pro that's why when when it
because the internal Market was so
strong and the internal Market started
to collapse that's when when the economy
started to go wrong and we have the
biggest recession in Brazil since the
1930s that is the problem you see and of
course that has a domino effect in Latin
America because many countries that
trade with with with Brazil can't do it
cannot do it anymore because the
internal Market is really really
collapsing there's lack of Confidence
from the consumer there's lack of
confidence on the account of from the
part of the invest investors the social
inst the political instability is making
things even worse because even after the
impeachment was voted in by Parliament
the the were the the the business sector
were saying oh now we the economy is
going to start going up well it hasn't
the strong markets in in in Brazil have
not gone up because of the impeachment
on the contrary they need political
stability so once the internal Market in
Brazil collapses and starts going wrong
that's when it's difficult for the
government to sort of sort solve it it's
understandable that D Mar Rusev would
want to challenge these decisions but
isn't she sort of doing her country a
disservice by remaining and maybe it
would be sort of patriotic decision for
her to step down at this moment and
clear the air perhaps but you have to
also question the legitimacy of the
impeachment
process to understand why L dma ROV is
resisting she was democratically
elected now when you have a member of
parliament quoting and praising an army
officer who tortured dma ROV when dma
ROV was a political prisoner to justifi
imp pment there's something very wrong
with the opposition and you understand
why the Workers Party are reluctant to
let ROV fall yeah because there's a lot
of personal Vendetta against her but
also you have this far right and right
wing M peace who want to bring her down
and many of them want to cover them
their own tracks because they are
involved in corruption themselves so by
impeaching her they are also distracting
the attention from the actual
investigation of this scandals yes I'm
not saying that dilar has done a very
good job she has been
clumsy in if if we could us that word in
managing the situation because she
doesn't have the Charisma and the
abilities that President Lula had but on
the other hand the opposition is not
offering an alternative and that is that
is why and and she's still followed by
millions don't forget that Brazil is a
very polarized uh you know country if
you go to Brazilia before the debates in
Parliament they had to build a metal
wall that cross almost all the capital
of Brazil to separate Pro and anti-
Dilma and that
that b is a metaphor of the divisions
that happen in Brazil between the poor
north where there's a lot of landlords
and poor people and the rich South and
that's reflected in the whole thing so
yes you can criticize Dilma for what
she's done but at the same time that
doesn't give the opposition especially
the ring opposition the legitimacy they
claim to have that we're heroes of
democracy well sorry but if you're
appraising an army officer who Tor to D
Rous when she was fighting for democracy
I'm not really sure you can claim any
kind of moral ethical standards or any
moral authority to impeach the president
so I understand why she's resisting this
this movement and do you feel that she
can survive no I think it's very
difficult I think it's going to be very
difficult for her to survive because if
the Senate approves the impeachment
process then the trial will start and
then she might have to go um there could
be a compromise maybe
um it it looks very difficult at the
moment nothing I mean Brazilian politics
are very unpredictable so anything could
happen but it doesn't look good for her
it doesn't look she has of course a very
strong rightwing opposition I'm curious
to what extent foreigners foreign
elements are involved in
that it doesn't suit the us to have a a
political crisis in in Brazil now even
Bush got along pretty well with
Lula because the us we're talking about
us yeah let's face it um Brazil is the
biggest economy in Latin America uh
before Lula became president um Brazil
was quite isolated from the rest of
Latin America for historical reasons
they speak Portuguese they were
conquered by the by Portugal we the rest
Latin America Spanish etc etc that was
but Lula started to integrate Brazil
more into the Latin American family if
you want to use that expression which
means that Brazil has has had a great
deal of influence in the rest of
especially South America it doesn't suit
the us to have political instability in
Brazil so I don't really think it's in
interest of the US to destabilize Brazil
because at the end of the day Lula was
very consiliary in terms of trading
agreements with with the US even though
and he was criticized by some part of
the left for being too nice to the
Americans but at the same time the
people who outside Brazil might be
interested like the right Wings in in in
Colombia or or or Venezuela to let
Brazil for because that would help uh
against Maduro so just one last Point
rather briefly how will the sort of well
not collapse really but this crisis of
Brazil how will it impact the rest of
South America but L because Olympics
well yes I mean how she might still be
president when the Olympics take place
because of the whole impeachment process
quite long uh but he would be a lame
duck sort of President one uh in terms
of the rest of Latin America because
everybody has been looking up at Brazil
then people will feel a bit lost like
okay our biggest economy the biggest
country has collapsed what are we going
to do about this uh unasur which is the
UN Unity of the organization that
unifies South American countries would
probably rally around Brazil because
they cannot nobody can afford to let
Brazil collapse it's far too big far too
important far too rich far too you know
relevant for them to let it to let it
down so maybe the other Latin American
countries might try to mediate to find
some kind of compromise because there's
no leader in the opposition in in in
Brazil like it happens in who might be
able to take over and say yes I am going
to save this none of them are capable to
do that on this point I'm afraid we have
to leave it thank you very much a you've
been a great
[Music]
guest now you've heard from our experts
let's see what the Twitter sphere has to
say k uh well we asked what actually can
be done to stop child soldiers being
used in conflicts and War zones Stephen
Gib says ceasing foreign aid to the
countries responsible would be a start
and Jay shinger says well stop selling
the bad guys weapons that sounds a bit
like victim blaming because obviously
selling arms to countries that are being
exploited doesn't make much sense I
agree but then gry McAdam says a higher
quality of world leaders that would be a
better option because that's really
what's supervising this all right under
which this is happening something we'
all like actually on Latin America Jason
allander says it seems like the USA is
getting its death grip back on Latin
America and that's what it seems like to
me as well I have to say I do slightly
agree even if I if I guess wasn't really
going along that line but yes there does
seem to be some sort of foreign
interference yes Venezuela Argentina and
a rise of rightwing elements in all
these countries and those are all the
tweets for this week and that's all we
have time for on Sputnik with me have
Sakara Mustafa and me gatri but you can
stay in touch with us through Twitter at
rtor Sputnik or on Facebook Sputnik on
Russia today until next week it's been
[Music]
marvelous